"Even if we did achieve what we wanted with a very small state, we'd just be resetting the clock back to 1776 and it would roll forward exactly the same way again," says FreeDomain Radio's Stefan Molyneux.

Reason magazine's Matt Welch sat down with Molyneux at FreedomFest 2012 and discussed why he thinks the libertarian ideal of a small state will inevitably grow, and why the absence of any form of the state is the only answer.

"If you look at America, which was the experiment of the smallest conceivable government, what grows out of that is the largest government the world has ever seen," says Molyneux.

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